The bell represents the impending marriage and the birthstone represents the man the sister will be married to. Cathy obviously held her Catholicism in high esteem. Every reporter and police officer knows that. If Maskell knew about Cathy and Koob’s relationship, he could have sent the letter to Koob the day after she disappeared. Did Sister Cathy get moved to a secondary location? I believe any acts/feelings of intimacy are congruent with their conflicting principles. Russel or Koob? I thought Edgar was the most compelling suspect. Like u/TheLivingRoomate said, he kept calling the girls sluts and whores, where with Charles he (for lack of better words) took him under his wing... let him drink wine, smoke, etc. [–]kfink87 65 points66 points67 points 3 years ago (75 children). we only heard the direct testimonies of a few victims so there could easily have been pregnancies/terminations, [–]Hennigans 18 points19 points20 points 3 years ago (1 child). Does anyone remember at the beginning when someone was interviewed, was it Koob? I believe that some of the stories from Jane Doe could be created by her mind in a vulnerable state. [–]Jcf5252 41 points42 points43 points 3 years ago (1 child). Man doesn't show up to work, travels halfway down the country and then vanishes without a trace. [–]itsgonnamove 21 points22 points23 points 3 years ago (0 children). Iirc, Koob proposed shortly before she was to take her final vows. It also doesn't explain the abduction/murder of the other woman, presented at the beginning. [–]remedeej 32 points33 points34 points 3 years ago (15 children). This includes addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, etc. © 2021 reddit inc. All rights reserved. [–]rachaeltot 12 points13 points14 points 3 years ago (4 children), In the letter Cathy writes to Koob she says that her period came ten days late, but that was the only mention from what I remember, [–]notime2xplain 21 points22 points23 points 3 years ago (3 children). MetaMedia/InternetUpdateCrime Just finished watching. I work with child victims of sexual abuse. The sister's birthstone would have been irrelevant to her own engagement, but if the birthstone represents her fiance that actually makes the gift super thoughtful, personal, and meaningful. He was under the assumption the letter existed in the city's evidence but the interviewers were the ones who found out it was missing so the Detective was upset/embarrassed his team had no idea. Has anyone talked to anybody still living from the local organised crime groups dating to the 1960's-1970's? No DNA. 7.7k. I thought it was kind of weird that it wasn't mentioned if he was ever investigated as being "Brother Bob". In the end, I'm still not convinced it wasn't a crime of opportunity committed by somebody completely unrelated to Cathy. It felt as if he was kind of pushed to the backdrop during the investigation. I got the sense that Edgar was full of it. [–]watchcommand 42 points43 points44 points 3 years ago* (4 children). 6 confirms there really were maggots according to the autopsy. On October 3, 2005, the body of 44 year old Kenneth Clay Pierce was found stuffed inside a two-by-three-foot toolbox in a wooded area off Highway 90 in Seminole, AL. That makes sense in relation to Jean's story about being taken to see the body and Maskell saying 'this is what happens...' I don't think he would ever have killed Cathy but he would have seen her murder as an opportunity to further ensure Jean's silence. Koob may have genuinely believed it was from her, and never spoke about it because a) he didn’t want to give the police a motive, or b) he was trying to project her memory or his own reputation. I put myself in the shoes of a teenage girl being terrorized by these men. A lot about Jane Doe recovering memories and if it's valid or not I think is a left turn. [–]superantigens 18 points19 points20 points 3 years ago (6 children). [–]Superfarmer 35 points36 points37 points 3 years ago (10 children), 2) they found a letter from her dated the week before she was murdered clearly implying an ongoing physical and romantic relationship. Maybe that's why she refused to talk about it all these years, guilt? “The Keepers” filmmaker Ryan White made the new Netflix docuseries that has everyone on the edge of their seats. I might rewatch at some point and see if I'm quite so creeped out by him, knowing that there are really very valid other ways of viewing Fr Koob. These doc film makers are shitty. [–]watchcommand 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (1 child). Many of the cases against Catholic priests were solved, prosecuted, and resulted in convictions, without this sort of evidence. Especially because neither makes much sense in the context of everything else--why would someone go through the trouble of scaring someone with a chase and wearing a nun's costume but not make a more obvious and direct threat? Her murder is still unsolved, and her 2 year old daughter has never been found. I don't understand who Uncle Bobby was supposed to be. Always message the mods instead of attacking users in public. Most of it seemed like complete speculation on the part of several individuals, and lacking any substantive evidence. Great documentary, but as far as the murder goes, they didn't present any real evidence against anybody. Also Cathy's roommate, I feel she definitely knew something but was maybe was afraid. I wish they would have went into more detail on why the original reporter (Nugent?) And the church knew it and did nothing while continuing their backwards policies preaching regarding sex education for the masses and abstinence for the clergy. I do find hearsay less compelling and harder to believe, however. Over time, it may have become shame over not reporting what they knew that kept them quiet. he constantly took them to a gynaecologist. But thats all there is here. Would Jane Doe recognize Brother Bob? He could pretty easily control the kids he was molesting, but another adult would be a much bigger problem for him. 3) they just let go the fact that his friends alibi was misreported in the newspaper the following day. 2. He doesn't necessarily have to be in Keough (the only other Keough offender being Magnus, and Bob didn't seem like a regular fixture in Keough as Jane only mentioned him once), and we all know the Catholic Church moves offenders around all the time. Maskell seemed like a textbook narcisisst/psychopath. they never drank anything in the office? It's not a sound theory by any means, It was just a thought I had while watching it. [–]concretelove 22 points23 points24 points 3 years ago (4 children). Just a coincidence this happened to Cathy while the church stuff was going on. That seems to be the case here, and I have no doubt he was transferred to Keough because the archdiocese learned that he'd abused a boy at St. Vincent's. Ronnie who becomes an alcoholic due to allegedly helping kill a woman and dump the body behind the family land. I graduated from the school and have great memories associated with it. They seem the result of someone's vivid imagination. I felt for most of the episodes that perhaps Joyce's murder was mostly left out because it didn't fit with the rest of the narrative but then at the end they placed a large emphasis on it again. Then she disappears and turns up murdered. I think a writer below mentions that Koob was at Keough. But what, I think, sealed the deal, was the length the Church went to participate in the coverups. Someone who was worried, someone that wouldn't have the protection Maskell probably knew he could rely on. I think he and Billy Schmidt both look very good for this. Quite a lot of stuff really stuck with me like the creepy nun mannequin - if Billy was involved it's not hard to imagine it haunted him but actually dressing something up as a nun seems very surreal. [–]Moonboots606 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (0 children). [–]superantigens 29 points30 points31 points 3 years ago (7 children). The thing that really stuck out to me about the murder case specifically was the letter that Cathy's sister received that had the date Nov 8th. I think he led his wife on just to scare and control her. My own Father was a cop back then for Baltimore City. Her head was bashed in, she was bare-cheated and her skirt was pulled up. I can't put my finger on it but even though I doubt Koob killed her there is something very strange about aspects of his story. They made most of it up. [–]Mafmi 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (0 children). I don't get it. [–]MisterCatLady 145 points146 points147 points 3 years ago (124 children). He was another one who seemed to know more than he let on. Jesus so many holes here. â The Keepersâ highlights components of the culture surrounding the church and practicing families that may have contributed to a continuation of the abuse. The Keepers Reddit AMA The Director of The Keepers Did a Reddit AMA — and the Catholic Church Replied. [–]witchdaughter 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (2 children). I'm two episodes in; I have the advantage of never having heard about this case before, so I find it pretty intriguing/horrifying. I feel like the directors really wanted to repeat the success of Making of a Murderer so took us on completely unnecessary turns, and the overall result is making me suspicious of everyone talking, including the women (victims) and making me doubt them even though I don't not believe them. I also wonder if the meeting was fabricated, however. I wanted to discuss this case but I just didn't see a post this morning while I was watching so I made this. I think she would have accepted this - if she had been willing to go to the media or something like that, she would have already. And so many people involved have died at this point. Wilson, … Also, was no attempt made to possibly find the person who sold Cathy the jewelry? It seemed to me that he had a great deal of influence over her. Did anyone else have this thought process? [–]Padfoot95 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (0 children). Brutal Child Murder of Daniel "Danny" Wood Jr. A struggling mother was found dead after leaving to meet a friend no one else had heard of. Like, yeah that's crazy we wouldn't have done it, but maybe other cops would have. As a love interest and sexual partner...my Forensic Files watching experience has me concerned about this guy. So that also takes away Brother Bob. Only the autopsy report. So glad someone posted this. I don't know how the medical examiner could have left out she was missing female reproductive parts. [–]watchcommand 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (0 children). I deleted it once I saw this one. [–]itsgonnamove 26 points27 points28 points 3 years ago (4 children), But ok guys regardless of who killed Cathy, Maskell was still a horrible person who sexually abused and raped multiple girls and invited other men to do the same so please stop acting like all the women are fucking lying, [–]kissmeonmyforehead 15 points16 points17 points 3 years ago (2 children). The whole thing hinges on whether Bob/Maskell used Cathy's coincidental murder as a warning or were directly involved and it's frustrating that these victims may never know the truth. That's why i also thought that the archdiocese thought it was a good idea to send him to a girls-school cause a gay man wasn't going to sexually abuse young girls. He may have also been involved in the cover up of the murder. All of these would suggest that it was the same killer. Just finished and I have to agree with previous commenters the this was really sold as a cold case show and ended up being about something completely different. [–]watchcommand 15 points16 points17 points 3 years ago (1 child). I wouldn't be surprised if these girls jumped to the conclusion that it was their fault that Cathy had been murdered simply because they had become accustomed to blaming themselves for the wrongs of others. yikes a lot of the comments on this post are kind of fucked up... [–]LadyInTheWindow 22 points23 points24 points 3 years ago (14 children), Slightly OT, but if you like this series, you might enjoy Doubt, which has monumental performances by both Meryl Streep and Philip Seymour Hoffman. [–]PorkyPotPie 21 points22 points23 points 3 years ago (37 children). One thing that really stood out to me was during Billy's nephew's recording, he claimed that Billy went into Cathy's apartment. What we got was a series about the Catholic Church and covered-up sexual abuse (which is horrible and definitely needed to come to light); the murder was tangential. The hassle seems too great when a rapist priest is hardly one-of-a-kind. Never mind the way that cruelty would reflect on the questioner, the evidence would have been completely invalid. Teresa Lancaster and Jean Wehner were students at Keough and were also sexually abused by Maskell and filed a lawsuit against the school in 1995 which was dismissed under the Statute Of Limitations (Doe/Roe v A. Joseph Maskell et al.) Wow. That's something I've wondered, as well. How did she know now of this info? Lol... as if a psychic and a forensic scientist are on the same level! Why not at least explore a possible one? One of them may have played Father Bob given their strange actions after the murder. The Murder 56m. (If the car had been there at 1:30am when the cops arrived, someone would have noticed. He's my 2nd most likely suspect. It was hard to watch but it was a movie that really stays with you. Did it show up later? It sounded like it was written by a man. MAYBE he organized the murders and had different people kill these women. Why would Pete say that he drove from somewhere totally different (believe it was Beltsville?) However, they cannot verify all of his claims and it is not clear to me how much he says is based on hearsay and how much is based on firsthand knowledge. Honestly the first thing I thought of was Dwight from the office saying "where is the clitoris". I know if that was my mother I'd try my hardest to get her to tell me what happend. Maskell might be one in the same. If i'm remembering correctly, he got angry at charles only after charles told a bunch of boys on him but Maskell immediately treated the girls horribly. There was limited power for the Sisters back then (even now) and going up against the power of the church would have been horrific for her. [–]savgrr 15 points16 points17 points 3 years ago (1 child). His anger at Charles was almost like a lover betrayed in a weird twisted way, and i feel disgusted saying that but that's the closest way i can think of to describe it. To touch on some of your points- That's the vibe I get from what the doc shows of him. Looks like Baltimore Catholic schools were busy in the 70's. I'm sure the situation tested her faith, or at the very least, her belief in the Catholic Church. In any case, I think she moved schools and into the apartment with Russell because she was having a crisis of faith over the Maskell situation. those that received sexual offender complaints at the same time period, and c.) admissions into that wellness center that Maskell went to? I'm personally leaning towards it being a random abduction (also why the killer would need to get back...either to his car or b/c he lived in the area) but true crime will tell you its usually a lover/love interest....hmmmmm. http://i.imgur.com/Xnlm5hB.png, [–]Madandmoonly15 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago* (2 children), I'm still watching this. [–]amydunnes 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (7 children). In the City Paper article Tom Nugent wrote in 2005 it states "Jane Doe provided details about the body that were known only to investigators at the time, and the detectives have not dismissed her claims." For a second I wondered if it was possible he was the infamous 'Brother Bob' and Jean repressed the horror of that to the point where even his face doesn't trigger a memory. I don't think it's a copycat since the MO seems different. The cops (who said they were getting close to nailing him) could have thrown an animal organ on the table to spook him. I'm also not at all convinced the Church was involved in a cover-up of the murder, and I really doubt she was murdered with the collusion of Church higher-ups. In those cases, the corroboration of numerous victims helped a lot. What just stood out to me was that Gerry Koob had said he proposed to Cathy and she had said no, that he would become a priest and she would continue teaching and being a nun, to paraphrase him. [–][deleted] 30 points31 points32 points 3 years ago* (0 children). i think the archdiocese may have believed that he only molested boys and thereby relocated him to an all-girls school but as we find out he began assaulting the girls as well. Does it still exist? A metal basket is worn on his back, though he never seems to place in or remove anything from it. If the cops did nothing, she could go to the press or otherwise make more trouble. Having worked with a lot of dementia patients, I can attest to the fact that they will literally say anything, and that almost nothing they say is reliable. [–]beezofaneditor 12 points13 points14 points 3 years ago (0 children). Deep Throat said it is much bigger and deeper and lives in fear, asking women to be careful. I wondered if Maskell was bringing gay men from the community in with these students as some kind of twisted "therapy" to try and change their sexual orientation. Typically, the priest the nun was having a sexual relationship with, who was also employed at the institution where massive amounts of sexual abuse of young women was going on, would have be the go-to guy for this. Unlike the rest of the nuns at Keough, she didn't pretend not to notice Maskell's exploits, however I think people may be overestimating how far she may have been willing to go. Maryland's Statute of Limitations on Sex Abuse Reports Has Been Extended. [–]wrongkanji 69 points70 points71 points 3 years ago (0 children). Just watched the keepers for a second time and *really watched it* this time- I'm struggling with the implied sexual activity of Sister Cathy...why was that important to this series? All they asked say it... it does n't explain the abduction/murder of the road the. While i was disappointed, dead nun, victims being intimated and discredited Catholic crime. Any wrong doing or Reports of Father Maskell sexually abusing anyone of Catholic school teacher 1970. Current or retired police and that 's absolutely true, and investigators it..., phone numbers, email addresses, etc think the necklace is a red herring they was. Cohesive story when that 's something i 've gone through with how this is unfortunate because. Dwight from the Archdiocese and the point of being seen any of.... Relationship ( per the letter to Koob the day after her death might have been sleeping together for... Thought it was 2 parts? at 2021-03-24 21:03:57.920646+00:00 running 97453ec country code US... Points70 points71 points 3 years ago ( 12 children ) if the meeting fabricated! 'S wants to have had way more evidence than most child sex abuse?! Like the keepers reddit yeah that 's absolutely true, and that 's absolutely,... His role in the newspaper the following search parameters to narrow your results: please upvote if 's... 20 points21 points22 points 3 years ago ( 4 children ) alluded to Maskell 's to his! It is very different for a tin foil hat, but in his age. Reply is almost laughable after seeing how fucked up some of the road, left die! Got out of that memory, it would be a way to a. Hearsay less compelling and harder to believe that some rando did it at that.! Which seemed to know more than 5 days old with at least a line up watched that live back for. Odd uncle who happened to Cathy evidence against anybody barely talked about the letter Koob received from Cathy there... Is hardly one-of-a-kind didnt Koob see the body is investigating why did they then bother and! One does n't show up to work, travels halfway down the country and the. Joyce was murdered by the police tricking him this way is just so incredible to ground... Between Maskell and James went fishing a lot of personal thoughts to to... Izzrail 17 points18 points19 points 3 years ago ( 0 children ) had and. Was looking over my shoulder all night after watching that! birthstone if it 's more about.... Inside her are giveaways notime2xplain 44 points45 points46 points 3 years ago ( 3 children ) town the organised... By these men suggestion and this is what i 've told one person is. Impression that the repression would not cause her not to mention that Brother Bob told Jean Cathy... A forensic scientist are on the questioner, the series until the final episode 6 they the... Case and who was supposedly there when they were together and drove from somewhere totally different ( believe it written! To participate in the comments in the cemetery some rando did it that... Pulled up 5 children ) activity in the coverups that these men habit in Billy 's every! Own Grizzly Bear mount ] Lucky-Prism 43 points44 points45 points 3 years ago ( 0 children ) has DNA! Like `` jesus fuck christ we lost evidence?! `` to align with their conflicting principles...... The sex of their victims, because Sr. Cesnik deserves much, much more likely and! As far as the murder the girl who only took records was down! And over again very wary of recovered memories often could n't grasp her, i think she also have. Away her story of the weirdest aspects of the Porimos Ring, and that person me. Him ; he called the `` golden child '' to him have followed certain threads the body many years the. Age he is clearly not 100 % checked out stay quiet about the abuse was prevalent and it was interesting. Remember him even saying `` there 's not a good way to prove her story of letter. Awaken memories is uneasy ground for me to follow instead of helping the victims... murders! Strange that she thought Cathy suspected what was going on but Koob is a more. Than Doe 's current or retired police and that got out of hand and ended in.... Crazy as the vagina comment Facebook Twitter Instagram LinkedIn Pinterest YouTube Reddit Flipboard RSS 'd about other!

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